Episode 4
Why Detroit's Secondary Depth Could Define Their Season - EP 004
If you're wondering whether the Lions can survive their cornerback crisis without making a panic move, this episode breaks down Brad Holmes' calculated approach to Detroit's sudden secondary shortage.**
The Grey Manes dissect Sunday's Browns victory while analyzing the strategic crossroads facing the franchise. With DJ Reed out 4-5 weeks and Terrion Arnold questionable, can Robertson and Ya-Sin handle Ja'Marr Chase this Sunday?
We examine why Holmes won't chase expensive trades despite fan pressure, detail realistic CB solutions, and preview Cincinnati's offensive threats. Plus: coordinator adjustments needed, PUP reinforcements coming, and trap game prevention strategies.
Key Takeaways:
• Why the "underwhelming" CB approach reflects front office discipline
• Specific Bengals matchups to monitor
• Historical context on navigating injury adversity
Join the Grey Manes for data-driven insights that separate smart Lions fans from the reactionary crowd.
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Lions Grey Manes is produced by Chris Stone at https://CastAhead.net
Transcript
Beautiful Lions. Fans of planet Earth, welcome to Lions Gray Mains podcast. My name is Chris stone. I'm@cast ahead.net and that gentleman on the right side of your screen, he is fresh back from the Lions victory from a Ford field over The Cleveland Browns, Dr. Brent Kreider, DBC.
Dan Keener [:Wow.
Chris Stone [:Is everything just tasting better this week? Is. Are we back? Are we back to what we were last season?
Brent Crider [:I think we're well on the. On the path of being better than last season, to be honest. All right, there is. There is a whole level of maturity, motivation, and, you know, the players, the coaches, the back office are mature and motivated to make this the best Detroit Lions team ever. And, you know, what happened in the playoffs last year, and losing the opening game to the Green Bay packers has this team focused.
Dan Keener [:Wow.
Brent Crider [:And the Lions are elite. And on all three. On all three groups, offense, defense and special teams. We'll talk about that later in detail. About.
Chris Stone [:Why did you use the E word? You use the E word, man, We're. We're elite all of a sudden. Yeah. I mean, it's. It certainly feels like, Brent, that week one was an anomaly. That was just like. And everyone overreacts, as everyone always does. Like, you know, we.
Chris Stone [:We lost Ben Johnson, you know, we lost Aaron Glenn. This team screwed. It's. You know, they were using the sol word, which we don't use on this show. And all of a sudden the sky was falling. And you, my friend, the chief intelligence officer of Lions Optimism, said, hey, we're good, we're good. We start slow. This is.
Chris Stone [:This is okay. And I gotta say, you were right. And, you know, but I think we gotta break down this. This victory because it was a different kind of win for us, right, Brent? I mean, it wasn't. If you look at the score and you look at the box score and you say, okay, 34, 10. This team just steamrolled the Browns. But if you watch the game, it certainly didn't feel like. Felt like the runs were not coming.
Chris Stone [:You know, Demo was not, you know, working out, and Jameer had a couple of great runs and a touchdown, but it was. It was Some tough sledding. Certainly the Browns defense was good, but in the end, I think, I think the special teams touchdown from, from Khalif. And special teams overall, I really took a step forward, which I was, I was super happy to see, because special teams, in my opinion, in the first couple of weeks, not so bueno. But Brent, talk about the win and what you, what you, what some takeaways were from you from the 34:10 win over the Browns.
Brent Crider [:I'm going to, I'm going to give you some numbers. Right.
Chris Stone [:Okay, let's do it.
Brent Crider [:It's not all about the numbers, but the, The Browns had a total of 249 yards offense. They had a drive of 88 yards and another drive of 46 yards. And in 14 drives, the Lions held them to 115 total yards. That's 8.2 yards per drive. That is, that is elite football on the defensive side. And Aiden talked about in the post game the fact that the Lions need to clean up their opening drive, but.
Chris Stone [:Oh, the opening drive. Right. Thank you for bringing that up. Like, let's just pull the opening drive out of every game so far. And then all of a sudden we do have an elite defense, right?
Brent Crider [:That's right, because 88 of those 240 something yards were on that opening drive. And then after that, you know, you had one other, one other drive there. And look, the reality is that when you can hold a team to 8.2 yards per drive for 14 drives, you're going to win a lot of football games. Even if the Lions didn't have a really good offense, you're going to win a lot of football games. So offensively, the good news is, and you know, in the back office, we were talking about this earlier with Mike T. And Dan Keener about how the defense really has to step up. You know, we'll get into the injuries and, you know, depth issues in the secondary later, but to this point, the Lions defense have, has really stepped up in each game and played better and better and better. Now, the Browns offense is terrible.
Brent Crider [:We're going to see a worse offense this week, I think in the Cincinnati Bengals. But we can fully expect that this defense is going to continue to get better. We called this out two weeks ago and then again last week. Our linebacking core is elite. And when you can hold up on the defensive front and maintain that gap integrity. And time and time again, I saw them, the front, the defensive front hold up and let linebackers run and make plays. And when you force a team to become One dimensional like the Lions have forced teams to do. And then, you know what, what happens when they drop back to pass? We've got pressure on the quarterback.
Brent Crider [:Despite all of the calls to sign, you know, people for $9 million as a rental defensive end, the Lions avoided doing that. And, and, and we have found ourselves putting a lot of pressure on the quarterback, and I fully expect that to continue this week. I actually feel terrible for the Bengals quarterback Jake Browning because I think that the defensive front is going to, is going to really put a lot of pressure on him. Their offensive line is a mess on gre. Dan Keener posted one of the snapshots of the offensive line. Four guys blocking one. One person. And so if the, if the Bengals make the mistake of doing that this week, they're, they're going to get trounced by the Lions.
Brent Crider [:And so I feel really good about the state of the defense other than the injuries. Yeah. And I think later we're going to, we're going to go into that. So special teams you brought up, right?
Chris Stone [:Yep.
Brent Crider [:Special teams coverage still causes me a little bit of concern. It's, it's the new kickoff rules.
Chris Stone [:Kickoff. The kickoff coverage.
Dan Keener [:Yeah.
Brent Crider [:Yeah. Teams are, are ending up on the 30 something yard line, which I think we're in the bottom tier of teams in terms of giving up our opposition.
Chris Stone [:Feels like we're figuring it out still, right?
Brent Crider [:I think, I think we're still figuring it out. And, and then, you know, we saw, I think we all saw Khalif, you know, fighting for receiving the ball and the kick return. So there's, there's plenty of things. And what Dan Campbell is the best at is we got, gentlemen, we got a lot of things to clean up. You know, you won 34 to 10. You took, you know, took the number one defense in the NFL kind of to the woodshed and, and were physically imposing themselves on that Cleveland Browns defense at various points. The Browns, the Browns defense is really strong. They've got a fantastic front seven.
Brent Crider [:But you saw from the Lions is continuing to be disciplined and running the football and that opens up the play action pass and we really thrive in the play action pass when you do that. So all, all elements of the Lions offense, defense and special teams. And look, the criticisms. We're talking about polishing a diamond here. We're not turning a lump of coal into a diamond. We're talking about levels of greatness. The ESPN power pole has the Lions at number three overall. And that's simply because we all know how those, those are, those are like beauty contests.
Brent Crider [:And when you, when you put Philadelphia as, as number one four zero, and they continue to look terrible in many, many aspects of the game, they, they, they almost let Tampa come back on them last week. And, and so Tampa, or excuse me, Philadelphia has a lot to clean up, a lot more than the Lions. And I would argue, just because of the record in that opening day loss at Green Bay, that the Lions aren't, aren't arguably number one. And Buffalo's got the easiest schedule in the NFL. I have, I have rarely seen a number one seed with such an easy schedule. The winning percentage of the teams that they're playing is very low. And so, you know, the Lions have played a. You know, it looked much tougher in the preseason as we were going into this with Cincinnati losing Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson playing like he's played.
Brent Crider [:But you put that schedule at the beginning of the year, and I think everybody is, is of the opinion that the Lions had, you know, really tough road to hoe to get to the point where you're three and one and in first place through four games.
Chris Stone [:Yeah, and I think when I'm, when I'm looking at the Browns game and all the talk that was happening beforehand, and obviously Morton, you know, basically said, hey, you haven't seen a run game like us yet. And of course, there was a lot of talk afterwards from, from that team. I'm not, I'm like, hey, thanks for giving them bulletin board material, John. But, you know, and of course, you know, they're going to run their mouths, and that's, that's what players do, and I would expect them to do that. That's. That's what they're going to do. But we were the first team to rush for over 100 yards versus the Browns. Take nothing away from the Cleveland Browns.
Chris Stone [:Take nothing away from Jim Schwartz and his ability to. He's a great defensive coordinator, not a great head coach for us, anyway, I digress. But what I really loved about it was the fact that, you know, we have two really great running backs, and you just kind of put one in and you put the other in and you kind of see where those successes are. And, you know, you would thought at the beginning of the game, okay, this is a tough game. This is against a tough defensive line, right? This is a David Montgomery game, right? No, this was not a David Montgomery game. We couldn't get him going. It felt like every David Montgomery carry just. Was just cogging down.
Chris Stone [:And Jameer Gibbs was having some success because he could Work himself outside for the, you saw that for the touchdown. You saw him work off of other blocks for the few long gains that he had. So. But I like the fact that this team is, is, is doing that and it's not depending on one running back, one sort of scheme. Their, their, you know, Miles Garrett was contained. He didn't have, he didn't have any sacks, but he did have some pressures. We saw that, we saw some QB hits there that knocked Goff off with his timing. Goff, not his best game.
Chris Stone [:I mean, if we're, if we're being honest, right? And there seemed to be, you know, many times where him and Jamo were not on the same page and some of that was Golf's fault and he, he fell on the sword on that. But, you know, I think there's some blame to go around there as well. You're going to get games like that from jmo. Don't you feel like every once in a while there were some games like that last season, season before where you're going to get that kind of thing where it just is like he's not, he's not squeezing the ball. There's, there's some plays where he's not able to go back and forth over, over each shoulder. I think we're going to hopefully get that, you know, fixed in some way, shape or form. I'm picking knits, you know, for the most part. But like these are things like if you're showing up against another team that has a good defense but also has a really good offense, Cleveland does not, obviously.
Chris Stone [:So, you know, if we're playing Philadelphia and we've got those issues, is that the difference between a win and a loss? So we've got to clean that, that, that stuff up. But I do love how the running game is not sort of contingent on one particular running back. You know, like against Baltimore, it was a demo game obviously, right. And, but you know, Jameer was, was the, the feature back Brent on, on Sunday and I thought he did a really good job of, you know, of doing what he could. I was getting a little tired of the one yard, the two yard run, but then all of a sudden he's busting it for, for some gains. I, you know, before we roll to the next one here, Brent, I just wanted to make mention, folks, the chat is open, so if you're watching us on YouTube, Facebook, Twitch X, all the places you know, join us. Wanda Rich is joining us. She says it's sounding better every show and she loves it.
Chris Stone [:So listen, that Wanda, thank you for joining us. Please hit subscribe if you're. If you're watching us on, on YouTube, if you haven't already. We appreciate you joining us, Wanda. And we've got our, our, our Gray Mains joining us backstage, and we'll be pulling Dan on later. And you know, he's saying Miami is trash and worse off with losing Hill. I don't know where that came from, but, you know, it's. You're, you're not wrong with that one for sure.
Chris Stone [:And what does that say about the Jets? Right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. But I think, you know, when we.
Brent Crider [:Talk about competition, I think, I think he was saying that because we, you know, I mentioned Buffalo schedule earlier.
Chris Stone [:Listen, Chris, going back, this game was not, Was not pretty. It really wasn't. But it. Ugly. Wins against elite defenses matter. This, this wasn't pretty, but it showed that grit, right? It showed that grit. You know, Campbell showed up and said, you know, he used to. He'd show up and Parcells would hang rat traps and mousetraps around in the locker room, you know, for before a trap game or whatever.
Chris Stone [:He's like, we don't need to do that. We don't need to do that kind of stuff. These are professionals. We know how to do that. We've set the expectations here. We play every team hard in the same way, and we understand how important those things are. And the second that you say, oh, we're playing the Bengals and they don't have Joe Burrow and whatever is the second that that team takes advantage of you. So I feel confident that these aren't the time.
Chris Stone [:These aren't the Lions of years past where you just kind of like, how did we lose to that team?
Dan Keener [:Right. Yeah.
Brent Crider [:Well, you, you again, move so eloquently through the topics. One, if you're going to have JMO drop balls, have it in the Bengals game when you're, when you're winning 34 to 10. Right. Two, last week in Baltimore, David Montgomery averaged, what, I don't even know how many yards per carry because he had so many yards. Yeah, 100. 151 yards on 12 carries. And so you're averaging, you know, 12 and a half, 13 yards per carry almost. And he wasn't the horse to ride this week.
Brent Crider [:And to your point about, you know, picking, being selected, the Lions have so many weapons, and we talk about this every week. The Lions have so many weapons and can, can really, it's a matter of pick your poison and a team can, can, can try to stop One particular player and the Lions just can go to somebody else. You go to a Monroe, you go to our great tight end LaPorta. You, you, you know, you can roll Gibbs out there, you can roll Montgomery out there, you can hit jamo trick plays, reverses deep routes. Khalif has played well. I can't wait to see Tesla at some point, step in and get some, get some play. But the, the reality is that the Lions have a fantastic ability to pick up on, you know, what the team's, what the team's trying to stop. And you just roll to, to plan B, C, D, E.
Brent Crider [:And frankly, I think that's part of the game plan. We're going to probe them. We're going to, you know, we're going to test them out and we're going to run particular, you know, our first scripted plays and then we're gonna, we're gonna make adjustments. And what I've been really impressed by is Morton's game management and, and the way that adjustments are made. One of the criticisms that we had of, of, you know, our defensive and offensive coordinators last year when we were debating the finer points of winning 14 games in a row at one point was the adjustments that they were not making at halftime. And I think it's when the games get tight at the end of the year in the playoffs, you're going to need those coaches making adjustments and taking advantage of what the other teams are going to give us. And so I'm really pleased with, with how the Lions have been making those adjustments. And, and you know, you said this multiple times And I agree, 100.
Brent Crider [:And that is, I would rather the Lions went ugly than, you know, like the old days, you know, same old Lions. There's still a lot of people out there who are commiserating about how.
Chris Stone [:You're not supposed to say it. Brent, don't say it. That should not like, yeah, I'm gonna.
Brent Crider [:But these are not the same old Lions. I don't even know. They don't even resemble remotely the, the Lions of yesteryear. And I, I told somebody this weekend, you know, at the game, we were chatting and I said, this Detroit Lions team, and I, and I mean this sincerely, reminds me of the Steelers of the 70s, the 49ers, the Cowboys, you know, in consecutive decades. This team is elite. And we, we, we all know that, you know, we were two or three plays away from the super bowl two years ago, had a catastrophic, catastrophic first round exit last year, but this team is absolutely wired to win this win every game this year, continuing forward. I'd be, I'd be shocked if we lose two or three games this year the way they're playing right now and with the focus that they have and Campbell's motivation for them is to be the best version of themselves every week. And so, you know, the Lions are going to come out, they're going to take care of businesses this week and we'll all put up our, our predictions.
Brent Crider [:I don't, I don't foresee anybody picking the Bengals over the Lions this week. And then that, you know, the next two games against Kansas City and Tampa, you're going to see, you're going to see the Lions roll out there with, you know, with, in Kansas City and then at home against Tampa. And that's where you're going to see what happened in Baltimore happen. They are going to play those, those teams very well. And we, you know, even if we lose one of those, I would say that, you know, from there on out, the Lions are going to be incredibly competitive to win as many games as anybody in the nfc. Truth be told, Philadelphia, if they continue to get lucky and squeak out games. But we saw two years ago they lost four or five games in a row. Dan and Michael, keep me straight on that.
Brent Crider [:But the, but you know, they have the ability to absolutely lose quite a few games in a row, meaning that as long as we continue to win at the end of the year, we could be competitive for the best record in the NFC and the buy and hosting. Most important thing though, this team can go on the road and win. I'm not concerned if we lose a couple of games during the season. Not looking too far ahead. But that Bengals game, we should take care of business. And then I'm really looking forward to those next two games and seeing what this team has.
Chris Stone [:I love it. I love how every week we end up talking about the future. But at the same time, we're not going too far in too confidently in the future because, Brent, what we saw was injuries and this is what happened. This was the bugaboo for us last season. And I think there's a couple of things. Number one, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a little bit scared of it, right, because we saw this. But at the same time, like, look what Brad and Dan were able to do, piecing things together to get us to a 15 and two season and then it just ran out for us in the first round. Like you had mentioned, the, the catastrophic loss to, to the commanders.
Chris Stone [:But I think they learned from that.
Dan Keener [:Right.
Chris Stone [:And I think they, they understand, like, when we get these guys hurt. And last, last year the case was, was the defense. And then this past weekend we had injuries, obviously to DJ Reed and also to Terry on Arnold. And so I think this is a good sort of segue into talking about what we're going to do at the cornerback position. And I do want to bring in Dan on this. So welcome, Dan, to the show. Dr. Keener, live from Ford Field.
Chris Stone [:As I like to say. As I like to say. But, you know, let's talk about these injuries. I think for those that aren't paying attention, you know, DJ Reed, obviously, I don't think the grade was given in terms of the severity of the hamstring strain. I'll, I'll refer to you, Dan, on that. I think it, it looks like if they're saying four to five weeks, I think we're looking at like a grade two. So, you know, that's, that's probably what we're looking at. I mean, they're even talking about possibility of tarry on being back this weekend.
Chris Stone [:Who knows? I mean, Taron wasn't exactly playing outstanding, but was he going to be playing better than Rocky Scene or Khalil Dorsey at cornerback? I don't know, but I wanted to open up the discuss, Dan, to you and obviously to Brent as well.
Dan Keener [:Should.
Chris Stone [:Should we expect that, you know, we're going to take a shot at a cornerback? Maybe not necessarily this week or maybe the next couple of weeks. It doesn't feel like Brad Holmes style, but, you know, at least in the short term. What do you think we're going to be doing at the cornerback position with, you know, definitely Reed being out this week and, you know, potentially the next four weeks and Tarion potentially being out for the next couple weeks?
Dan Keener [:Yeah, yeah, I, I think, you know, this week I don't think we need anybody. That's pretty obvious. You know, we're playing Jake Browning. Now. If Joe Burrow was there, I'd be concerned because the elite, talented wide receiver on that team is, is crazy. And frankly, you know, he could have a great game too, and just chuck it up and, and those guys take it to us. But I think with the meek and, and with Rockets in and, and the other guys, you know, Branch can step down and play nickel if need be. I think we're okay this week, you know, looking at the schedule, you know, after that, then we've got the Chiefs who, you know, they're not the Chiefs of years past.
Dan Keener [:They are definitely a team that appears to be on the downward slide. Kelsey is not performing where he used to perform. Their wide receivers are always hit or miss, you know, so we'll see where that goes. But Tampa, you know, if, if they have injuries, same thing, you know, we may not have to deal with it. But hey, you're talking about the bye week to get healthy.
Chris Stone [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:So four weeks from now, you could see both Arnold and DJ Reed back in the lineup, especially if Reed does not go on ir. Now where I do have concern is if there's another injury, whether it's just a short term or whichever to any of our backs. Because if you look at our practice squad, we have Lauren Strickland and Eric Khaled on it and they're both listed as safeties. But I think, I think they have the ability, almost everybody on that safety roster that's a backup has the ability to be more of a hybrid. So they could move some folks around. But I do, I do have concern. We don't have a, like a natural corner on our practice squad.
Chris Stone [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:So that is a concern. He did not make that move today. He, he got picked up. You know, actually another really good special teams linebacker to help fill the void with Sailors and, and Vaki going down and probably being out again this week. So, you know, there's still time to make changes. But Tuesday has. Excuse me. There's a deadline Tuesday, I think by four to claim practice squad players or make changes.
Dan Keener [:So unless something happens in practice, I don't expect to change this week and I doubt we'll see any elevations either. But if something does happen, if we lose Rock. Yes. And if we lose A Meek, especially he could make a move, you know, because. Especially if there's a season ending there, there's, there's quite a few guys that are available. I don't think we're going to go for any practice squad players unless they're a veteran that's sitting there behind some really good depth on a team. Because when you do that, there's a couple things have to happen. You got to sign them to your active roster, number one, and you have a three week commitment to them.
Dan Keener [:So whether you cut them or keep them for that three weeks, they count against your 53. So it's. Oh, practice squad signings are a little, you know, you, you think they happen more often, but that's one of the reasons they don't. Unless it's again, a vested, you know, veteran that's under that veteran two plus year rule that allows them to be on there but outside of that, there's a lot of teams that thought they'd be probably better than they were. Now at four games in, there's quite a few guys available. We've, we've all heard about, you know, Reek Woolen. I, you know, I think he's, I think he has the potential in the right system to get back to where he was his first two years in the league. When Pete Carroll was let go and they switched defenses, they went from a man to man press, they went to more of a zone style and he's just been lost.
Chris Stone [:Yep.
Dan Keener [:You know, he's 6, 4, 2, 10 runs, a 42 9, 4, 2 5, 40. He's not a big four. He's not really a physical guy for being that size.
Chris Stone [:Not good run supporter. I don't.
Dan Keener [:Not good run support. Not good at, you know, sticking his nose in there. So, yeah, you know, he doesn't really fit the mold of what we look for in a cornerback, but he would be an option. I wouldn't be surprised if Pete Carroll went after him because he's on the last year of his contract and Pete's trying to build something in, in Las Vegas. He'd be a good person to bring in. Signed like a three or four year deal. He knows he's going to get out of him. As long as he's there, he's going to perform in his system ideally, but there's quite a few guys.
Dan Keener [:I did a little research today if you want to dig around. As far as free agents go, it's, it's busted up or old players. That's what's out there. You know, there's just, it's just really, you know, it is week four and these guys aren't signed. The only guy that's relatively young is Asante Samuel Jr. He's still sitting out there, but he had an injured shoulder last year. Only played in four games. So where he's at, no one knows.
Chris Stone [:I thought he had neck surgery or something.
Dan Keener [:Yeah, he's got a small frame too. He's not a big dude. He's 5, 10, you know, he's got okay speed, 4, 4, 8, roughly. You know, he's, he's serviceable if he's healthy, but right now who knows where he's at. And then you get into the guys that are veterans that are, they've been hurt, you know, where they're slow, you know. Rasool Douglas played for the Bills. He's a physical press kid, 30 years old, six two, but he's slow. He runs a four.
Dan Keener [:Six. You don't really like that as your quarterback. Maybe better as a safety like some of these guys, to prolong his career. But again, unsigned at this point in the. The year. Stephen Gilmore or Stefan Gilmore. Excuse me, same thing. 35, goes with the Vikings.
Dan Keener [:He's 34. 35. You know, no burst in speed is way down. He allowed tons of catches, like 65 completion percentage last year. And he's. He's kind of injury prone. Paulson Adebo played for the saints last. He's 27, 44 speed, not bad, 6 1.
Dan Keener [:But he had a broken leg last year in week seven, so who knows where he's at. We know how long it took, you know, took Hutch to come back, and I think he broke his in week five or six. So he might be about ready, but who knows where he's at and has he mentally recovered from that? And then the other two guys are James Bradbury and Kendall Fuller, both over 30. You know, they're both, you know, four or five guys, but athleticism, speed limitations kind of. Kind of gotten him down. But I came across one name that I saw, and I'm like, interesting. Oh, interesting. Emmanuel Mosley.
Chris Stone [:Oh, I know that guy. I've heard of him.
Dan Keener [:Former Detroit Lion Emanuel Mosley, still only 29, never had great speed, but he knows the system. You know, he tore his knee, what, 22 and 23. I don't know what happened to him last year. I think we caught him at the start of the season. He's out there. So if you want somebody to come in and knows your system, that might be the guy.
Chris Stone [:Is he. Do you feel like he's, like, healthy and no one's. No one's taking a shot at him just because they feel like he's injury prone?
Dan Keener [:I mean, well, yes, to everything you just said, you know, he. He's not really been a, you know, massive, you know, as we've seen for the two years that he was with us. He played, what, three snaps one year and like, three games another, you know, games. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he always seemed like he was getting ready to break out, and he was an ideal fit. Is like that hybrid safety nickel role that Branches kind of was playing after he went down, so just, you know, somebody to think about if they want a familiar face. But again, I don't know what kind of shape he's in. I don't know how healthy he is.
Dan Keener [:I don't even know where he's been. You know, he may have retired and not Just filed his paperwork yet, so. So that's it there. And as far as trade guys go, we already talked about Woolen. You know, he's got. He's got some ideal measurables, but I just don't care for the lack of tackling. It's not my guy. Yeah, the other three guys I noticed, I kind of just cheated a little bit, threw it out there, said, hey, find me cornerbacks on teams that are one and three or worse, that might be interest, you know, might be available by trade.
Dan Keener [:And it spit out Alante Taylor from the Saints, Garrett Williams of the Cardinals, and Cater Kohu from the Dolphins. Now, the Dolphins, I went and looked at them, their roster, their cornerbacks. You think they, you know, with Hill going down, their cornerbacks are even worse. I think they have, like four guys on ir. That's a DB for them, that's a cornerback or nickelback, so.
Brent Crider [:Geez.
Dan Keener [:But they need a wide receiver now. You know, they're signing Cedric Wilson Jr. It appears off of somebody's practice squad because they're familiar with him, but that's the one position we're kind of flush with that. And maybe running back, you know, so. And conversely, the Saints need a running back, so, you know, that. That may be the Craig Williams destination. So. But it just seems like the quarterback player around the league is.
Dan Keener [:I'm sorry, Craig Rounds. Pardon me.
Chris Stone [:Oh, I'd hate to see Netflix go. He's one of. He's one of my favorite guys, but.
Dan Keener [:Yeah, he is it.
Chris Stone [:I. I think that's a. That's actually a. That's a good call because, I mean, if you're looking at the last few weeks, I mean, Reynolds was always active. He was always active. And I know he was active last week, but, I mean, he's not returning balls at all. And Sailors is the guy. Sailors is the guy that comes in third.
Chris Stone [:And they like what Jacob Sailors has to do. And he's absolutely taking away some of Reynolds snaps. And Reynolds is a player. And so I like. Yeah, I like that. I like that option. I think, you know, Stefan Gilmore, to me, Even though he's 35, to me, there's just something about a veteran, savvy guy if he. At the right price.
Chris Stone [:I think another name, Dan, that a lot of people are bringing up. I'm not going to say I, you know, want this person because I think he's too expensive. Is Greg Newsome, who we just played for the. For the Browns. Feel like he's a right fit, but right now it's. He's like a. Got a 13 million dollar contract that we would have to. We would have to take on.
Chris Stone [:On.
Dan Keener [:I might as. You might as well just take Sauce Gardner off of the jets hands at that point. You know, I mean he played like crap. So you know that. And I was just going to say that a lot of these top tier cornerbacks all of a sudden are just not so top tier this year for whatever reason. You know, guys that should be playing well, that have historically played well just are. They're getting woodsheded by guys, you know, sometimes in some cases by guys that aren't even household names, you know.
Chris Stone [:Right.
Dan Keener [:They're just playing poorly and it. I don't know if it's. Officiating has changed and we are seeing a lot more of DPI and holding and things going on and that's really what's really cost these guys that I think have been allowed to get away with it in years past. They're just the grabbing. This is getting called like crazy this year. I've noticed it in my analysis of officials every week when I put together the teams or the, the preview of the officiating crew for the Lions. It's just, it's. It's kind of an epidemic.
Dan Keener [:It seems to be an unspok or unnamed point of emphasis this year.
Brent Crider [:There were, there were so many flags when I went to the Bucs jets game last week that it was. The pace of the game is slowed down so much by virtue of the number of penalties and there were a number of defensive holdings that were called dead. And so I think you're on to something. But let's, let's talk about how realistic is it that the Lions are in the market for a cornerback.
Dan Keener [:One more injury and maybe.
Brent Crider [:Yep. That's, that's not yet gonna go is. I think it's, it's good analysis and, and the reality is that the Lions are in a position to where they build depth and players that they have comfort in. I think Rocky sends versatility and. What's his name, the corner slot. Corner.
Dan Keener [:Meek Robertson.
Brent Crider [:Yeah, sorry. Meek. I was going to call him a Liam because I have hopes of a lean McNeil coming back in my mind.
Chris Stone [:Well, he'd be back at practice so that's. He's definitely.
Dan Keener [:Yeah. Four week window.
Brent Crider [:But the, the best, the best friend of a secondary is a pass rush and okay, you know, back in the day when we had the, you know, the defensive front of Bubba Baker and Doug English and, and, and then later, you know, the Porsche, Pat Swilling and Porsche and, and we could put pressure on the quarterback. It made our secondary so much.
Dan Keener [:Goggins.
Chris Stone [:There we go.
Dan Keener [:Scroggins. Scroggins. I remember him wiping out a Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback when he turned around and just. It was like a Mack truck hitting the car.
Brent Crider [:And, you know, the, the secondary became so much better when Ray Crockett and, and. And William White and, and all the guys and the secondary. And so the, the, you know, the Lions secondary is. Is better because of the fact that we've been putting pressure on a quarterback. And I think that's. That's absolutely the imperative here going forward, especially when we play the Chiefs. The Chiefs and the Bucs. You know, Baker, Baker and Mahomes both are quarterbacks that are pretty nimble in the pocket.
Brent Crider [:They. They have the ability to. To kind of scramble and find receivers as plays break down. And so, you know, the key to the game for, for the Lions secondary in those. In those next two weeks after, after this, this Bengals game is to contain the. The quarterback in the pocket, get pressure in their face, which I'm ecstatic about adding Ali McNeil back to a unit that's already putting a lot of pressure on quarterbacks up the middle. And so if, if we can keep getting that pressure on the quarterback, that is the best friend of a secondary.
Dan Keener [:Need to replicate the success that the linebackers had against Lamar Jackson because that, you know, they didn't want to say they were spying him, but every time he took off, there was a linebacker in hot pursuit that actually had a decent angle and was there to make the play or force, you know, force him wide and someone else made the play. So, you know, that. That's a good point about the, about the two quarterbacks that are up. Up after Browning and Browning's.
Brent Crider [:Browning's pretty.
Dan Keener [:He's mobile, right? He just. Terrible quarterback, but he's mobile, you know, I mean, so. Yeah.
Brent Crider [:How many times against. You know, to your point, Dan, and you bring up a good one there in Is, you know, Anzalone, Campbell and Barnes all as plays broke down, they. They were able to keep Jackson from breaking out and Lamar was, you know, caught many times. They just kept grabbing my feet, he said. And that was. That was the linebackers primarily. There were a couple times defensive linemen were able to. To.
Brent Crider [:To grab a hold of him. But those are. Linebackers are key to. To the defense and, and their ability to run to the ball and make plays.
Dan Keener [:Make a tackle.
Brent Crider [:Make a tackle. Oh, my gosh. Last night's games, I was Watching teams are so bad at tackling the jets and Dolphins. Game watching, watching their, their poor tackling. The Lions have physical issues, fast linebackers. And I'm so thankful that Barnes is back and healthy because he, he adds a whole nother element that, that was missing. And so, you know, when you can roll these guys out there behind a defensive line that's pretty stout, can put pressure, maintain their gap integrity, and then let the secondary, you know, do what they do. We've got the best safeties in the NFL.
Brent Crider [:And so, you know, again, we're stacked. We do have the possibility here of having to reach out for cornerback depth, but I, but I really am very, very comfortable with one the lessons that we learned last year. And Brad Holmes, he's not going to bat an eye. He's not going to flinch one bit. And I guarantee he's got, he's got a list of players that if, if what you just said happens where they, you know, we have one more person, unfortunately, get injured in the, at the cornerback position, then, then I have no doubt he probably has a plan. And it could include the names that you, that you brought up, except for Emmanuel Mosley.
Chris Stone [:That guy I knew. I knew he had something in him asleep and he's like, I do have a guy. And then he paused. I was like, oh, God, I know a guy.
Brent Crider [:Yeah, but. But, yeah, Mike Terry posted the summary toward ac, tore his left ACL towards left acl, towards ACL in his right knee and torn pec muscle.
Chris Stone [:I mean, it's so. There's so many things like it's covering up Brent's face on the screen right now. That's. That's how long. That's how long the injury history is. I will tell you this, guys. You know this. Let's take all this injury stuff and what we do at cornerback and what we thought we should be doing at defensive end and edge rusher and all these other things.
Chris Stone [:Let's just like, talk about, like, how incredible Dan Campbell is at a CO as a coach when we thought he let Aaron, like, Aaron Glenn got hired by the jets and Ben Johnson gets hired by the Bears, and we bring in a guy that was on our staff coaching linebackers to coach to be a defensive coordinator. And we bring in a guy who, you know, had historically as an offensive coordinator, not a good history as an offensive coordinator. Let's, you know, call it what it is in terms of John Morton's history out there. And look where we're at. We're confident that he's going to go into all of these games with our starting two cornerbacks potentially both out. And yes, it's the Bengals with Jake Browning. So we don't feel, you know, like it's, you know, that big of a deal, but, I mean, you just feel confident that Dan Campbell's going to, you know. Right.
Chris Stone [:This is his ship, right? And these guys understand that this thing is going to get done. It's, you know, you know, talk about Dan Campbell, guys. Let's, let's, let's, let's give him the flowers here, because that game that we just watched against the Browns and the fact that we came out and lost to Green Bay and just won three in a row convincingly in different. In three different ways. I mean, you know, you just can't understate what a great leader this guy is and how he's just completely. I mean, there is no better coach, in my opinion, for, for this team, and maybe one of the best coaches right now in the NFL for the city, right.
Brent Crider [:Dan Campbell. First of all, Johnny Morton, he unfortunately was the jets offensive coordinator. And, and the players that, that he was coaching, I, They. They pale in comparison to what he is.
Dan Keener [:He.
Brent Crider [:He's like a kid in a candy store with, with the, the players at the skill positions that, that the Lions have. So that. That's maybe worth another discussion at some point in the future. But Dan Campbell, his will is. Is going to be the difference in this team whether we win, whether we win the super bowl this year or not. I watched the Cowboys special on Netflix and, and Jimmy Johnson and Troy Aikman were talking about what a pain in the backside Jimmy Johnson was in. And, you know, the, the. It got harder as the Cowboys won more.
Brent Crider [:It got harder and harder and harder. And the thing that we haven't talked about here, that, that, That I think is worth noting is that the, The Dan Campbell coaching lessons learned from last year that I, that I've referred to a few times specifically, what I'm talking about is Dan Campbell's will is not going to let these Lions back down. The will that he has, the motivation, the drive, the passion, that's what makes him elite. He. He is absolutely going to keep the Lions focus this year. Make no mistake about it. There's going to be no letdown. We might lose a game in the, in the course of the season.
Brent Crider [:We might lose a game in the playoffs. Unfortunately, it's a reality in the NFL. There's such a fine line between winning and losing. But I'm, I'm here to tell you it's not going to be because Dan Campbell does, doesn't have him ready to play. He is, he is doing exactly what Jimmy Johnson did with those Dallas Cowboy teams in those times when they were successful in winning. And that is, oh, we lost to Green Bay. That, that's not going to happen again. We are not going to lose another football game if I have anything to do about it.
Brent Crider [:And, and the, the, the most motivating thing about the great leaders that I had the opportunity to work with in the military were the people who just never rested on their laurels. They never slept, they never, they never, you know, wasted time. They made sure that you were always prepared. And the focus that the units that were the elite units had was incredible. And Mike Terry served in the Navy as well. And he probably would argue the same thing. Dan Campbell is that leader. Dan Campbell, these players and the organization in its entirety would do anything.
Brent Crider [:We always used to joke, run into a machine gun nest in the military. These players would run into a machine gun nest for Dan Campbell because Dan Campbell has earned their trust. And he, he, he was a player, he was a blood, blood and guts player. And, and we saw that funny interview a few weeks ago about, of Jared Goff where the, the guy says, you know, well, did you support Dan Campbell being on steroids? And, and the guy says, you know, Jared Goff says, I don't think he's on. And he says, will he, do you ever see him work out? And he said, no. And he goes, well, the players love Dan Campbell. They believe in Dan Campbell. Yeah.
Brent Crider [:And, and he has been in the wars.
Chris Stone [:Yep.
Brent Crider [:He has been out there. He wasn't the most athletically gifted player, but these players play hard for him and they will, they will continue to play hard for him. So I think that's Dan Campbell's greatest, greatest attribute is his leadership ability.
Dan Keener [:I would say this though. Yeah, I, I gotta, I gotta agree on everything he said, except I want to take it one step further. I don't think his best attribute is his leadership. I think his best attribute is the fact he knows he doesn't know everything. He knows he needs Brad Holmes. He knows that Brad Holmes, if he asks him for things, Brad will get them for him. They work as a team and they work in harmony. This is the best front office coaching, harmonized group in the entire NFL outside of maybe over in, over in Philly with Ross, you know, Howie and I can remember their coaches, but this team here.
Dan Keener [:The reason that everything you just said is true, Brent, is because he also Learns from his mistakes. And he asked Brad, I need a team that has, it can't be top heavy. I need a team that needs to have more balance on depth. We saw it this year, the amount of special teams work that's gone into to not only bring in a guy like Grant Steward, who is a phenomenal special teamer. The guy can play linebacker.
Chris Stone [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:He's not just a throwaway.
Brent Crider [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:He's a game speed level great linebacker. And you know, Brad can get these players to Campbell so that way he can, he can throw them in, keep his team fresh, ask him to do those things, rotate him in and out, keep the depth there. You know, you've touched on it earlier. You know, we, these guys kept this team going all last year until we got to the playoffs. And then finally we were overcome by injuries on the D line and somebody not focused when they should have been focused, that cost us a game. Right.
Chris Stone [:And you're not talking about any one of our coordinators, are you, Dan?
Brent Crider [:Yeah, but you heard Dan Campbell. To Dan's point. Dan Campbell. What did he say? This is on me. We weren't ready to play. This is on me. And that's that. Dan, that is the true definition of a leader.
Chris Stone [:Right.
Brent Crider [:Somebody who's leadership, who, who when you fall short, they accept responsibility and, and 100% the best military leaders and the leaders that I, that I've experienced, even in the, in the civilian world are the ones who know that they don't know everything. So absolutely a great point.
Dan Keener [:This team is better prepared this year for the long haul than we were last year. Last year was about, you know, we had tastes of success the prior two years. Last year was a humbling experience because we were expected to win, they expected to win. Everyone expected them to win and they won. And then when it mattered most, we ran out of steam because we didn't have the horses to keep going. The will was there, but the bodies were not. This year, I feel like unless there's a major rash of injuries and I'm knocking on wood, I feel like this team is much better prepared. And it touches on exactly what you guys brought up a little bit ago.
Dan Keener [:The versatility of this team. They can win. They could beat any team. They could beat him with defense. They could beat them with ground and pound. They can beat them with quick outs and, and slants and wide receiver screens and RPOs and speed. They could beat him with the tight ends at the second level. They can beat him by throwing deep to numerous options.
Dan Keener [:There are weapons on this offense at every single position, Brock Wright is a weapon. He is a silent weapon, but he's a weapon. You forget about him and all of a sudden the dude's torching you for a touchdown for 15 yards. Right.
Chris Stone [:Or you're seeing him, you know, block the edge for, you know, for a Jameer Gibbs touchdown. Yes.
Dan Keener [:And the defense is the same way Shepard has taken this team. And outside of that, same issue we had with Glenn where we'd give up touchdowns in that first drive, you know, where you have basically scripted plays against our base, you know, they're trying to figure each other out. Outside of that, I've been so impressed with Shepherd's adjustments in game. He is making necessary changes. He's moving personnel around. You know, they're overcoming some. Some grabbiness and some penalties here and there, but he's getting his players in position to succeed, and he's not sticking with the same thing. You know, we were getting torched in several of those games when we were doing jailbreak blitzes with our linebackers.
Dan Keener [:Well, he dialed it back. He changed up his defense. So that way, when they were expecting it to happen, all of a sudden it's not happening. He tried dropping defensive ends into coverage for about a quarter and realized quickly against the packers, that's not a good idea. So, you know, that didn't really help us out in that game. But he. He is learning on the fly. He's been.
Dan Keener [:I hate to use the word groomed, but he has been learning at the knee of Aaron Glenn. You know, coming off that desk, Dennis Allen system, which is rooted in the Bill Parcell's system. You know, he is learning. He's been. He's been being taught and ready to go by Campbell and Glenn over the last three years for this moment, and he has shown he's ready to take it on.
Chris Stone [:Can we just get him to not let up a first drive touchdown for the other team? Can we, like.
Dan Keener [:I would bet this is the week that that does not happen.
Chris Stone [:I want to bet last week. But, guys, we got to. As. As this thing's flowing around. My job is to keep this thing on the rails. And part of this is I want to talk about this Bengals game. And I understand there's a lot of people that are like, ah, we're going to smash them and all of that, but I think we can get a little bit more. We can think a little bit more about this because of the, you know, quote unquote trap game factors.
Chris Stone [:We're coming off this emotional win We've got the injured secondary. These guys. This is the best wide receiver duo, in my opinion, in the NFL. I mean, when you have Jamar Chase, who is, you know, like, you know, probably the number one wide receiver in the NFL, and you got T. Higgins as your number two, this is a road game. So you're going to have that hostile environment. We don't want that letdown. Right? And I think we know Dan's going to have them ready.
Chris Stone [:Right? But we just watched them just get destroyed by the Broncos on Monday Night Football. Without Burrow, their offensive line can't protect Browning. The running game is not consistent. They don't lean on them frequently enough to take pressure off of Browning. Their passing game is. Is basically like sideline shots to Chase or Higgins, hoping that they win these 50, 50 battles. And so, you know, and even then, they're getting like, tons of penalties. They had, I think it was like 11 or 12 penalties or something on Monday night.
Chris Stone [:So it looks like, you know, and we're favored by like, what, 10, 10 and a half, I think, was. Was the line. What do we need to do to make sure that we don't fall backwards? And, you know, I mean, this is the NFL and these guys want to keep their job and they'd like to win. And, you know, what. What do we need to do, guys? What does our team need to do to make sure. Is it, you know, are we bringing Branch down in, you think, at times, and bringing Maddox in as strong safety? We bring in Branches as a nickelback to help for these DBs. Sort of. A lot depends on Terrion in that.
Chris Stone [:In that respect. What do we need to do to make sure that we win on Sunday?
Dan Keener [:First thing first, everything I said about the Lions and what they have with their roster, it's like the Bengals are the anti of that. They put so much money into two wide receivers and a quarterback. And now Trey Hendrickson, who, by the way, hendricks, who is 31 years old, they don't have good depth. They don't have balance across their roster. So they have holes everywhere. Their running back is, you know, P. Ryan and some other guy. Let me see here.
Dan Keener [:Chase Brown, right.
Chris Stone [:He's a good running, you know, doesn't have.
Dan Keener [:He's a good running back, but he's, you know, is he a stud? You know, maybe he's a good workhorse. But to answer your question, Chris, here's what we need to do. You know, they're probably going to go into something along lines of a cover two. They're gonna Force Browning, or is that what his name, Jake? They're going to force Browning to try and beat them. They're going to probably keep seven in the box with a safety lurking and they're going to force Browning to try and do drop back passes and hit intermediate, intermediate routes between the COVID two between the corners and the safeties and, and say, hey, we don't think you could throw these out routes or throw these seam routes because a, you're not going to have enough time because your line is horrid and B, you aren't accurate. You're not a good quarterback. So they're going to force him to try and, and beat them over the top with these two wide receivers. Now, the Bengals may try and counter with quick screens, wide receiver screens, slants, things like that, but shepherd will adjust.
Dan Keener [:You know, they'll see what the Bengals throw at us. That might work. You know, they've got four games of offense, you know, I think two now with Browning at the helm, plus a part of another one. They know what they, what they have and what they don't have and they'll be able to attack it. I'm not concerned about it. You know, we might give up 10 points to them, maybe, maybe 13. I just, again, they're, they're worse than the Browns with Browning at the helm. I mean, they're looking at the stats right now.
Dan Keener [:They're 30th in the league in total yards per game at passing yards per game at 155. That's their bread and butter. It's not their running game. And you know, their total yards per game, they're dead last. They, they average 205 yards a game. I mean, can you imagine when they play the Browns, they might not get 100 yards.
Brent Crider [:Wow.
Dan Keener [:So I'm just, I'm not concerned about them unless they suddenly realize how to play offense or find a way to attack the Lions defense that no one's thought of yet. You know, this isn't Green Bay from The, you know, 1990s when we were making backup quarterbacks, Pro bowls and millions of dollars from the Seattle Seahawks. You know, I, I just don't see it happening.
Brent Crider [:Well, let me, let me just, let me just throw something out there, guys. The, the Cincinnati Bengals have played arguably four of the four top 10 defenses to this point. Cleveland, Jacksonville, who is, who has a really good defense, has been playing very well, Minnesota and Denver. So don't, don't think that the, you know, the Bengals ineptness to this point can't you know, take a turn for the better if the Lions don't come ready to play the. The. When you've got Higgins and you've got the Chase and, And Brown, they can. They could absolutely. You know, every, Every.
Brent Crider [:Every blind squirrel is looking for a nut. Right. And Jake Browning could have a career day. So don't. You know, that's still the NFL. I don't disagree with you, Dan, and what you're saying.
Dan Keener [:They played Cleveland and Jacksonville with Joe Burrow, and they scored 16 and 27 without Joe Burrow. They scored 10 against Minnesota, three against Denver. Yeah, I just. Again, they would need to suddenly make him, you know, not him.
Brent Crider [:Make no mistake about it. My prediction is not going to be for the Bengals.
Dan Keener [:No, I agree.
Brent Crider [:I'm just saying, you know, it's still the NFL any given Sunday.
Dan Keener [:Yeah.
Brent Crider [:The Browns beat the Packers. The. I mean, the Cowboys stepped up and tied the packers and the packers after week one were the greatest team in the NFL.
Chris Stone [:You know, I'm going to say after watching the Lions and the Browns, I am not surprised that the Browns beat the Packers. I'm not.
Brent Crider [:Me either.
Chris Stone [:I'm not surprised. That's a. That's an. That is a very tough team. We had a punt return for a touchdown, and there was. There was plays here and there, you know, and turnovers. Two turnovers. And so, you know, if you.
Chris Stone [:And their coaches. Who. Their coaches. Their quarterback. Who's their quarterback is. You know, and when you play tough teams and you're not ready to play a tough team and, you know, people want to. People want to throw dirt at the, at the Browns and say that they suck. They're a tough team.
Chris Stone [:They're a tough. You know, and like, if you're not prepared to play a tough team, you're. You're gonna get. You're gonna get beat. And so I'm not surprised that.
Brent Crider [:That's my caution. Right, Chris? That's. That's exactly my caution.
Dan Keener [:Yeah.
Brent Crider [:You know, this is where Dan Campbell earns his money. Back to the conversation we were having earlier. Are the Lions ready to play? Do they lay wood?
Dan Keener [:Yep.
Brent Crider [:Do they come out and do they play like the Detroit Lions or do they play down to the level of their competition because they're supposed to win? And when that. Just like the jets in Tampa last week.
Dan Keener [:There's.
Brent Crider [:There's so many examples where good teams play down to the level of their competition, and it ended up biting them in the backside. So we'll find out what we were talking about earlier. If the pedigree if the pedigree is what we believe it to be or not this Sunday, I will say this.
Dan Keener [:You all have never been in Paycor Stadium or Riverfront before that. When the Bengals are not good, the atmosphere is awful. The team, you know, they show up and they start cheering and then first bad thing that happens. You know, you guys have been to the Lions. You've seen us play back in the 80s and 90s on the off, off year. Not, not the good year, but the other, the next year we played the first place schedule, we'd be emptying the stadium. You know, Silver don't be leaving by, you know, midway, third quarter. Right.
Dan Keener [:That's what happens in Cincinnati. So if, if they catch a whiff that we're starting to pull away, people will bail because they want to get out of downtown and, and get home, you know, before the crowd and the rush hits.
Chris Stone [:Go home and get some Skyline Chili or whatever they have.
Dan Keener [:Go watch the Browns lose, you know, and hate watch them instead. I, I, I kind of, it's the same thing I said last week, you know, if we score 17 points, it's a win. I, you know, I said that against the Browns. I say that again this week and last week we end up, put up 30 some, you know, it was methodical, it felt like a slug fest. But at the end of the day, you look up and you know it was 27 without the special teams touchdown. You know, just offense alone. But you know, Browning has got a very nasty habit of throwing it to the wrong jersey. Guy's been playing two games, he's got five picks, he's been sacked seven times.
Dan Keener [:You know, his, his quarterback rating is 67.9. You know, this is a guy who has two of the best wide receivers in the league and he's averaging 6.0 yards per catch, you know, on his throws or per throw, you know, on his completions. So conversely, you know, guys like Staffords at 8.2, Golf's at 7 6, you know, I mean, they're, I don't think two yards ahead of him.
Brent Crider [:Yeah, I don't think dang. Dan Campbell, Aiden Hutchinson, Jack Campbell, Brian Branch are going to let anything happen, but the lines are going to absolutely rain some hellfire down on, on the Bengals on Sunday.
Dan Keener [:Anyone that's played football before knows hard you hit them fast, you make them quit. You get to go home and sit in that bench early and still earn your paycheck.
Chris Stone [:Lions 38, Bengals 10. That's my, that's my call. And you guys want to make you guys want to make a call early for, for your picks or not Ready.
Dan Keener [:To put my number on it, but I think you're a little light on alliance points.
Chris Stone [:Oh yeah. Okay. More than 38. Okay.
Dan Keener [:I'm looking at a 50 spot. I think we're going for our second 50 of the year.
Chris Stone [:Nice.
Brent Crider [:If you don't put your foot on the pedal and keep it on the pedal, then you, you run the risk of things not working out the way you want them to. So I think the lines are going to come out and just.
Dan Keener [:I think we get our first defensive touchdown this week of the season.
Chris Stone [:I like it. I like it.
Dan Keener [:Branch to the house.
Chris Stone [:Okay. Branch. Yeah.
Dan Keener [:Pick six. That's my guess. That's my take to the bank guess. I guess there, there could be.
Brent Crider [:There could be an Aiden sack fumble picked up by a lot. I mean there's so many things that could happen.
Dan Keener [:Strip sack and almost touchdown called back last week by a ridiculously poor defensive holding call. You know.
Brent Crider [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:So the plays are coming, they're there, they're there to be made and they. The defense, that's. That's something. Earlier you mentioned defense gets better as the game goes on. Outside of that packers game, they're playing their best defense by the end of the game. You know. Now granted they probably made them one dimensional by then and they're just pinning their ears back. But it's just, it's crazy how, how good this team is when they get rolling and they get deeper into the.
Brent Crider [:Game and if the Lions can stay healthy, this defense is going to be top five. A top five defense by the end of the season.
Chris Stone [:Well, and a lean coming back is, is going to be huge for us for sure. Sure. I mean, just, just having a lean back is, is, is huge. I mean, Malcolm Rodriguez.
Brent Crider [:Right.
Chris Stone [:I mean, listen, you know, having him back is huge.
Dan Keener [:He.
Chris Stone [:He does so many things from the linebacker position, you know, fullback, tight end. The dude. Special teams like he, he plays all over.
Dan Keener [:We will have too many linebackers on this roster when Rodriguez comes back. That if there's a trade candidate for this team at the deadline and we're looking to fill and strengthen a position. I would think that linebacker with the Rodriguez back or, or wide receiver or even running back would be the position that we could draw from the. Sweeten the pot or you know, get a player for player swap.
Brent Crider [:Yeah.
Dan Keener [:That. It just goes back to the depth thing. You know, our running backs are the strongest they've been in years. Linebacker depth is just incredibly stupid. We've Got top tier guys start and we have guys that are backups that could be starters or have been starters for other teams, you know. And I'm not talking bottom feeding teams. I'm talking like decent teams, you know.
Chris Stone [:Yep.
Dan Keener [:The places where we're thin, you know, DB and offensive tackle, you know, those are places. And we're thin at tackle, you know, we're going to get. We've got. Still got big Skip, you know, and Manu has not had to prove himself thankfully. But. But yeah, those are two places I'd say we're thin at this point. I'm okay with Allen at backup quarterback. We've got the who's on our.
Dan Keener [:Who's our practice swag quarterback. We signed.
Chris Stone [:Oh, C.J. bathard.
Dan Keener [:Yeah, Bethard, you know, he's. He's. Fortunately he's been here over two weeks now. So he's learned the system, you know. So if we absolutely had to go there, you know, you have competence. The depth is there everywhere. Except for probably two spots and one of them is because injuries right now.
Brent Crider [:It is crazy how AQM does though. AQM was. Was non. You know, non existent.
Dan Keener [:I think he was hurting.
Chris Stone [:It's the injury.
Dan Keener [:They held him back.
Chris Stone [:Yeah, absolutely. Snap count was down as well. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's why, you know.
Brent Crider [:In terms of depth. But we still got pressure on the quarterback, right?
Dan Keener [:Yes. So that's the Shepherd's manufacturing. He tries. You know, you watch the movie Jurassic park where they talk about the Raptors trying different spots to get out of the cage. That's Shepard. He's out there sending linebackers, safeties, corners, defensive ends, stunts. He's trying stuff the entire game. He's almost like an offensive coordinator.
Dan Keener [:He's setting things up for later, figuring out what's working, what's not working. And then when they. He goes away from something that, you know, maybe wasn't working perfectly, he brings it out of the blue and all of a sudden, you know, a running back is not picking up a blitzing Anzalone. And Anzalone is just in some dude's face, you know. It's been kind of marvelous to watch these guys work this year.
Brent Crider [:Yeah. Other than the packers game, the. The Lions have. Have really been. Had some great design in terms of their pressure on the quarterback. And as. As you talked about, I think it was a spy. I don't think anybody had an issue calling it anything other than that.
Dan Keener [:But they were joking about that.
Brent Crider [:Yeah. But the truth of the matter is, is that he had always had one of those linebackers. And if you noticed when I, when I pointed out earlier, Barnes made tackles, Angelina made tackles, and then Campbell made tackles. It wasn't the same person every time. They were, they were really mixing it.
Chris Stone [:Up and doing their job.
Brent Crider [:Doing their job, just doing their job. As, as mcdc loves to say and.
Dan Keener [:As, as it should be. They were the top three tacklers on the team. Campbell had 11, Barnes had seven, Anzloni and Arnold had six. You want your linebackers to be your leading tacklers. You definitely don't want your safeties or your cornerbacks doing it. You know, D line be nice to have. But those guys job isn't to do that. Their job is to free it up so those linebackers make plays.
Brent Crider [:Man, I, I saw another analysis on our, our Ohio State defensive tackle, Ty Leak. Ty Leak is growing up fast. He is a big body, he's nimble. He's like a big dancing bear. His ability to hold his gap. And then of course, DJ reader being the pro that he is, a lot.
Chris Stone [:Of that stuff doesn't show up on the stat sheet.
Brent Crider [:Those guys on the statute.
Dan Keener [:Yep.
Brent Crider [:Right. But that frees our linebackers up to, to run and make plays. And, and truthfully, Dan, what Dan just said is right. If your linebackers are leading your team team in tackles, that is the best indicator of a healthy defense that you'll, that you'll find. It's that they are running and they are filling those lanes and, and making tackles. So, you know, all the indicators are pointing favorably. Let's see what the Lions do this Sunday and Cincinnati and then it's on to much bigger and better opponents those, those next couple weeks.
Chris Stone [:Outstanding. Well, guys, Jake is joining us from YouTube. What up, gentlemen? Love the show, Jake. Thanks for joining us. Jake says Jake Browning is obviously awful, but it's the NFL and I could see them making some notable adjustments that make this closer than 38 to 10. Okay. All right. Hey, listen, Jake, we appreciate, we appreciate you.
Chris Stone [:You know, like I'm. Listen, I think the spread is 10 and a half and I think Mike was asking earlier, like, do you, do you take that, do you take, do you take those points? That feels like. That feels like a lot of points, but I don't know. I, this is why I don't bet on football, guys.
Brent Crider [:What if, what if you throw it up to Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, you know, one on one against the corners?
Dan Keener [:They're. Arnold isn't out there. You got veterans out there now. You got Robertson and you got Rocks in two guys that have been around the block, they know. They know to get their head around. They know not to grab, you know, unless they're getting beat deep.
Brent Crider [:But I'm just saying, you got at least a 50, 50 chance with those, with those talented big receivers on the outside. Jake's point. I'm, I'm urging caution, guys. Yeah, I hear you and Flacco did that last week.
Dan Keener [:And Kirby fielded like a pun on the sideline for interception.
Chris Stone [:What was that arm punt? That was like.
Brent Crider [:It was a, it was a rat. The. The receiver broke the route off.
Dan Keener [:You know what I saw just. I had flashbacks. I had flashbacks to Jeff Garcia.
Chris Stone [:Jeff Garcia. I thought you're gonna say that garbage.
Dan Keener [:He threw the absolute most worse awful looking hunt pass I've ever seen in my life. I don't know how long ago was. It was.
Brent Crider [:Joey Harrington did too. I remember Joey well.
Dan Keener [:Harrington could count every freaking light bulb in or in the silver dome. He was on his back so much, that poor guy, he got shell shocked. I hated that for him.
Chris Stone [:Joey Harrington. This is the only show where you're gonna get Pat Swilling, who was up earlier, Joey Harrington, Jeff Garcia, Cherry Garcia showing up on, on the show. Who knows.
Brent Crider [:English, Doug.
Chris Stone [:English. Bubba Baker.
Dan Keener [:I got one for you. Ken Fantetti.
Chris Stone [:Ken Fantetti. What in the world? I may have a football card of him somewhere.
Dan Keener [:Mike Cofer is another one those guys, okay? That stretch of linebackers. George Jameson, Cofer, Fantetti Spielman, all those guys, you know, they, that was great. I, I loved, I loved watching football from that era. You know, every other, you know, it's like, hey, we knew we're gonna suck this year because we're playing a first place schedule. Oh, hey, they threatened to fire Fontes, so we're gonna, we're gonna be in first place this year because he's got a last place schedule.
Brent Crider [:You know, the big buck.
Dan Keener [:The Big Buck. Every other year he just, you know, ping pong back and forth.
Brent Crider [:Well, for the best. The. What I'll leave Chris on, because I know we gotta, we gotta run.
Dan Keener [:But.
Brent Crider [:But the, the thing that killed the, the 92, the 92 lions was, was our guards. Our guards.
Dan Keener [:No, you know, Bill Fralich on that.
Brent Crider [:That team with this club, Young stud guards. No, we had.
Dan Keener [:Oh, you mean the guards that literally were killed, Eric. And was killed when those.
Brent Crider [:Frank, we went from, we went from 12 and 4 to 5 and 11 the next year.
Dan Keener [:The schedule.
Brent Crider [:Schedule was part of it, undoubtedly. But we, Our offensive line never recovered. Never recovered. From that.
Dan Keener [:Chris, one last thing before we go. Just totally off topic. I'm just going to throw this out there. I, I was watching some of the videos on TV on, on X today, and I just want to say, you know, I grew up listening to first Frank Beckman and then Mark Champion on the radio. So many great calls of Mark Champion. Colin Barry calls and then they just, they let him go. You know, he, he wasn't renewed. You know, we still had brand stutter and Ortiz, but they let Champion go and they brought in this guy named Dan Miller.
Dan Keener [:And I don't know who the heck that guy was. Right. I, I just want to say how much and how blessed we are to have Dan Miller as our radio announcer. He is fantastic. The clips, watching him, every time I see him call a big play, I get chills. You know, he just, he, he's the embodiment of it. He just, he loves it so much. His body language.
Dan Keener [:You know, Lomas is over there just cheering in the background.
Chris Stone [:You know, him and TJ Lane. High five. And on the other side.
Dan Keener [:Yes. And Miller's just, he's just like, he gets the, gets that big charge pump going there. He's just awesome. You know, we are very fortunate to have someone of that caliber. That is the voice of the Lions on the radio.
Chris Stone [:I agree.
Brent Crider [:And you know, he's the, he shows up on shows all time. I'd love to get Dan Miller on our show. And they do the Fox Sports office calls and we'd love to dial into those, Dan, and introduce ourselves to them.
Chris Stone [:Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think, you know, one of the, one of the great things I think about some of these play by play guys, and there are a handful of them and you could even look at other sports like you look at Ernie Harwell for the Tigers for years. And I just think that guys like Dan Miller are not just voices, right? They understand what's happening, they understand the game and they understand storytelling. And I think it's important as, you know, as announcers that you're not just this kind of distinguished voice doing it. You understand the game, you understand all the nuances of it. And the other cool thing, you know, Dan, that you, that you brought up is like when you watch those videos on YouTube where it's just, you know, they got the camera on, on the whole crew up there. He's surrounding himself. He's now he's got two guys that flank him on either side and they're like writing on post it notes, you know, where the guy's going for a touchdown.
Chris Stone [:And the guy's looking down, he's, he's running, he's writing down how many yards it is and how many. And they're holding it up. And he's, he's, you know, he's getting into it and all of a sudden he looks over at the post it note, he goes, that was 57 yards. Because, you know, these guys are all. So he surrounds himself with a really great team. And speaking of a great team, you guys are a great team. This has been a great show as always, so I'm going to sign off for tonight. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us.
Chris Stone [:Jake. Yes, we are real fans in ca, you know. Thank you. Thank you for noticing. We're not, we're not fake fans. Wanda, we gave you some extra time tonight. Thank you for, for joining us as always. And ladies and gentlemen, we are the Gray Mains.
Chris Stone [:Like, subscribe, do all the stuff, smash all the buttons and as always, go Lions.
